#103 Parenting Outside the Lines with Guest, Meghan Leahy

Season #2 April 28, 2024

In this week's episode of The 3D Parent Podcast, we welcome Meghan Leahy, noted parenting columnist for The Washington Post and author of the book, Parenting Outside the Lines. Meghan's columns resonate with readers through their insightful, practical advice on parenting. This episode offers a glimpse into her motivations for pursuing a career as a parent coach and columnist, along with key moments that shaped her approach to parental guidance.

We will discuss the significant challenges that today’s parents encounter, particularly in fostering deeper connections with their children and managing expectations for acknowledgment and appreciation.

Join us for a thoughtful conversation with Meghan Leahy, as we explore effective strategies for navigating the complexities of parenthood.

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CONNECT WITH ME:

Connect with Meghan:

Website: Meghan Leahy Parent Coach

Facebook: Meghan Leahy Parent Coach

Book: Meghan Leahy - Parenting Outside the Lines

Podcast: Meghan’s Substack | Meghan Leahy | Substack

SHOWNOTES:

Today, we're stepping "outside the lines” with special guest, Meghan Leahy, a multifaceted individual juggling the roles of parent, writer, coach, and lover of reality TV. Meghan brings a wealth of experience to the table as a parent to three children, two dogs, and a devoted partner of 23 years. With a diverse background encompassing numerous degrees, certifications, and trainings, Meghan humbly acknowledges that the more she learns, the less she feels she knows. She wears many hats, including that of a parent coach, author of the insightful book "Parenting Outside the Lines," and a parenting columnist at The Washington Post. She's also deeply rooted in Zen Buddhism and is often found soaking up the sun on a beach.

Meghan Leahy’s journey into the world of parenting coaching and writing is a tale of transformation, fueled by a deep understanding of the struggles many families face. As she candidly shares, she wasn't the model child; in fact, she was the kid who challenged every behavioral norm in the book. For her parents, navigating her adolescence was akin to a high-wire act without a safety net.

It's this firsthand experience of being the impossible kid to parent that fuels Meghan's passion for supporting parents today. She understands the frustration, the exhaustion, and the overwhelming love that accompanies raising a challenging child. And it's this empathy that forms the foundation of her coaching philosophy.

But Meghan's journey wasn't a straight path from rebellious teenager to parenting expert. She stumbled into teaching after college, only to realize that her penchant for honesty and authenticity didn't always align with the rigid structures of academia. Yet, it was during her time as a teacher that she discovered her gift for connecting with young people on a deeper level.

Her journey took a decisive turn when students began confiding in her about sensitive topics like relationships and sexuality. Meghan realized that she needed more than just a teaching degree to support these kids effectively. So, she pursued further education, earning a counseling degree from Johns Hopkins University.

Armed with a newfound understanding of family dynamics and human behavior, Meghan embarked on a journey of self-discovery. She attended parenting classes, volunteered in her community, and eventually became a certified parenting coach. And it's this openness to the organic flow of life that defines Meghan's approach to parenting and coaching. She doesn't believe in one-size-fits-all solutions or cookie-cutter advice. Instead, she encourages parents to trust their intuition, embrace the messiness of parenthood, and stay open to the unexpected twists and turns along the way.

In her column for the Washington Post and her book, "Parenting Outside the Lines," Meghan brings this same spirit of authenticity and openness to her writing. She tackles tough questions with compassion and offers insights that challenge conventional wisdom. Her responses are refreshingly unpredictable, reflecting her belief that there's no single right answer when it comes to parenting.

Meghan's Take on the Biggest Obstacles Modern Parents Encounter in Building Meaningful Connections with their Children:

In today's fast-paced world, parenting has become a high-stakes balancing act, with challenges that seem to multiply by the day. From juggling work demands to managing screen time battles, modern parents are facing obstacles that previous generations could hardly imagine. But what are the biggest obstacles that parents face today, and how do they impact our ability to forge meaningful connections with our children?

According to Meghan, one of the biggest obstacles facing parents today is the lack of support systems. In our society, we're bombarded with messages about what it means to be a good parent, yet we're provided with scant resources and support once the baby arrives. From inadequate childcare options to a lack of community networks, parents are often left feeling isolated and overwhelmed.

But perhaps the biggest hurdle of all, in Meghan's opinion, is the pressure to conform to a singular, idealized version of parenting, often perpetuated by folks writing, talking, and sharing on social media. In a country as diverse as ours, with myriad cultures, religions, and belief systems, there's no one-size-fits-all approach to raising children. Yet, we're bombarded with conflicting advice and judgments, leaving us feeling like we're constantly falling short.

Adding fuel to the fire are the systemic problems that plague our society, from unworkable work-life balances to racism to the ever-present pull of technology. As Meghan observes, we live in a world where our kids are simultaneously expected to excel academically while being bombarded with screens from dawn till dusk. It's a recipe for confusion and frustration, with parents caught in the crossfire. But amidst these challenges, Meghan urges parents to resist the pressure to conform to unrealistic standards and instead focus on what truly matters: nurturing meaningful connections with their children.

In the ever-evolving landscape of parenting, one of the most profound lessons we can learn is the power of losing our balance. It may sound counterintuitive, but as Meghan Lahey eloquently puts it, feeling unsure is not a sign of weakness; it's a sign that you're actively engaged in the act of parenting.

Take, for instance, Meghan’s analogy of a tree pose in yoga—a moment of precarious balance where the only certainty is that you will inevitably fall. But what if falling out of the pose was not seen as a failure, but rather an opportunity for growth? This is the essence of parenting outside the lines: embracing uncertainty, navigating challenges with grace, and finding wisdom in moments of vulnerability.

In her book, Meghan explores the idea that parenting is not about having all the answers or achieving perfect outcomes. Rather, it's about cultivating a mindset of curiosity, resilience, and compassion. It's about recognizing that parenting is messy, unpredictable, and profoundly human. And in those moments when we feel most uncertain, we have an opportunity to tap into our intuition and wisdom, rather than seeking external validation or quick fixes.

This perspective challenges the prevailing notion that every misstep or moment of uncertainty is a failure. Instead, Meghan encourages parents to approach parenting with a sense of openness and humility, recognizing that there is no one "right" way to raise a child. It's about embracing the journey, with all its twists and turns, and trusting in our ability to navigate the challenges as they arise.

Part of this journey involves redefining our definitions of “emergencies” in parenting. In a world where every missed homework assignment or skipped practice feels like a crisis, Meghan reminds us to prioritize what truly matters. Drawing on Ross Green's model of problem-solving, she encourages parents to discern between genuine emergencies and everyday challenges that can be addressed with patience, compassion, and collaboration.

And perhaps most importantly, Meghan emphasizes the importance of resilience and self-compassion in the parenting journey. She acknowledges that we will inevitably make mistakes, but it's how we respond to those mistakes that matters most.

How do we let go of a desire for gratitude and validation from our children?

In our conversation, we touched upon the subtle yet significant desire we parents can have for appreciation and gratitude from our children. As parents, we pour our hearts and souls into nurturing our children, from preparing meals to chauffeuring them around town. Yet, when our efforts seem unnoticed or unappreciated, it can stir up feelings of resentment and frustration. But as Meghan so aptly puts it, perhaps we're seeking something that isn't ours to claim. Our children, especially in today's fast-paced world, may not express gratitude in the ways we expect. They're engrossed in their own worlds, navigating the complexities of growing up. And while it's natural to desire validation, pinning our happiness as parents on our children's gratitude sets us up for disappointment.

So, how do we let go of this need? Meghan suggests a radical idea: embracing resentments. Yes, you heard that right. Resentments can be powerful indicators that something's not right in our parent-child dynamic. They're like alarm bells ringing, telling us to pay attention and make some changes. So, if you find yourself stewing in resentment because your kids don't seem to appreciate all that you do for them, don't ignore it. Meghan encourages us to write it down, get it out, and let yourself feel it. Then, once you've released some of that pent-up frustration, it's time to dig a little deeper.

Ask yourself: why does this bother me so much? Is it because of something from my own childhood? Is it because I'm not taking care of myself enough? Is it because I'm expecting too much from my kids?

And then, once you've identified the root cause, it's time to take action. Maybe it means setting clearer boundaries with your kids and teaching them the value of pitching in more around the house or getting a job . Maybe it means prioritizing self-care so that you're not constantly running on empty. Maybe it means reevaluating your own expectations and letting go of the need for validation.

Do No Harm: what does Meghan mean by this and why is it a powerful choice?

In parenting, there's one guiding principle that stands out: do no harm. It's a mantra borrowed from the medical field, a reminder that sometimes, inaction speaks louder than action. I use this phrase in my parenting and in my work with clients as a parent coach. Meghan uses this mantra as well in her work so I wanted to ask about her perspective.

So, I asked Meghan what "do no harm" means to her in the realm of parenting. Meghan delved into the idea that doing no harm isn't about doing nothing at all—it's about making active choices that prioritize emotional safety for both parent and child. Meghan also brought up this cool analogy with the vagus nerve and our nervous system. Basically, when we're in a state of non-reaction, it's because we feel safe. We're like, "Hey, I've got this," instead of shutting down or freaking out. It's about feeling secure enough to stay present, even when things get tough. Meghan emphasized that choosing emotional safety, even if it means slowing down and being patient with ourselves and our children, is a big deal.

She talked about how parenting nowadays often feels like speaking a second language. We're trying to learn this whole new way of doing things, one that's more introspective and compassionate. And let's be real, that's not how most of us were raised. It's like we're navigating uncharted territory, trying to find our way without a map.

Meghan's message really hits home when she talks about the invisible victories of parenting. You know, those moments when you manage to keep your cool instead of losing it, or when you choose understanding over judgment. It's not flashy or glamorous, but it's so important. She hopes that everyone has someone in their corner, cheering them on for these quiet wins, because they're just as meaningful as the big achievements.

THANK YOU MEGHAN LEAHY!!!!

As we wrap up this enlightening episode overview, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude. Meghan Leahy has graced us with her wisdom and insights on podcast, and I couldn't be more thankful for her time and perspective. Now, if you're as captivated by Meghan's insights as I am and you want to continue learning from her, I encourage you to connect with her on social media and buy her book. You can follow her on her socials by clicking the links above in these show notes. Take care, and we'll catch you on the next episode of The 3D Parent Podcast!

Episode Transcript

Beaven Walters
Okay. All right, I'm going to go ahead. Welcome to episode 105. And Today I am talking about parenting outside the lines with guest Megan Leahy. And I'm going to start off first by reading an introduction and a little bio that Megan sent to me so you could get to know a little bit about my guest if you don't already know who she is. Megan is a parent to three children and two dogs and a wife of 23 years to one man. She has a million degrees, certifications, and trainings under her belt, and the older she gets, the less she knows. Megan is a parent coach, author of the book Parenting outside the Lines, a parenting calmness at the Washington Post, a part time makeup artist and full time lover of reality TV.

Beaven Walters
04:34
She practices Zen Buddhism, and you can always find her on a beach. Welcome to the podcast, Megan.

Meghan Leahy sheher
04:42
Thank you so much, Bevin. I'm thrilled to be here.

Beaven Walters
04:45

Well, honesty first. I think I said when I reached out to you that I'm fangirling you a bit. In fact, I first became aware of you as a writer because my mom is pretty old school. She gets her local paper, of which your column is published, and she would send me little news clippings, particularly because my mom was always kind of looking at my parenting a little bit from this observation of coming from a different generation, making little comments sometimes, like, you seem so child centered in your parenting. What is what? You're focusing a lot on your kids emotion.

Meghan Leahy sheher
05:21
What is this?

Beaven Walters
05:22
It's kind of a little bit observational. I mentioned to her that I was studying with Dr. Newfeld of the Newfeld Institute, and then you had some article where you referenced Dr. Newfeld, and suddenly it felt, like, validated somehow for my mom. So thank you for that.

Meghan Leahy sheher
05:37
You're welcome. Out here saving mother daughter relationships.

Beaven Walters
05:42
Absolutely. And helping to also know a wide audience, particularly of american audience, aware of a different way of thinking about parenting, one that's maybe less talked about in our culture, which is so fast paced and so driven towards finding people who have the answers. And I love the fact that you draw from a lot of the same inspiration from his work.

Beaven Walters

All right, well, Know you are answering questions from parents at the national, global level, at the Washington Post. And I know that there's a story. I know there's a story. In fact, your wonderful book, which we're going to be referring to here, a bit parenting outside the lines. You give a bit of a background in terms of your story and what inspired you to pursue a career as both a parent coach and parenting columnist and parenting book author? Could you share with us a little bit about your story and any pivotal moment or experience that solidified your passion for supporting parents in their parenting journeys?

Meghan Leahy sheher
11:08
Oh, boy. So the reason I am a good parenting coach and the reason I think the Washington Post keeps me on is that I was the kid you did not want. So I was the kid who was the behavioral problem for whom behavioral controls weren't working, rewards and punishments didn't work. I was that, and I know that my parents really, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, just graduate from high school, just don't go to jail, don't die. And of course, back then, it was don't get pregnant. Right? So my Irish Catholic in the 90s, it was just, don't get pregnant. I'm like, there's actually a lot worse things, people. So I don't have any pretensions around, nor am I scared of stories, just not. And I have a special kinship to the unparantable kids.

Meghan Leahy sheher
12:28
And then I have a lot of empathy for those parents because I know how desperately they love them, these children. And I know that a lot of today's parents are throwing everything at it, and I often know what's missing. But that also doesn't come from personal experience, because there's nothing worse than a parent coach who's like, I have kids, so I can. No, no, honey, you can't. You gotta get your ass to. Okay. Like, if I didn't have a counseling degree from Johns Hopkins and all these things, I don't think that I actually could help people the way I do if I didn't have a really good understanding of family dynamics and family therapy dynamics and addiction and triangulization. And you need to know those things not because you can treat them, but that you won't do harm.

Meghan Leahy sheher
13:27
So I do worry about the field anyway. So I had no dreams for myself. I did not see myself being anything. So I was free to be anything, right? So I was pretty much like, just, I got into college because of white privilege and lies, and I made it. I just was free. I was free of Delaware, and I could remake myself and recreate myself. And since I was bright enough and privileged enough to do so, I made it out and into myself, right? I grew up a little, and because I didn't have any expectations to be like a lawyer or a doctor or anything, I still go where the wind takes me. I grew up with a lot of teachers, very matriarchal family, very women, strong. My godmother is a teacher, one of my favorite people in my life.

Meghan Leahy sheher
14:38
So when I was in college studying English literature, which of course, too, it was just dead white men, mostly british. But I was like, what am I going to do with, like, studying James Joyce for two years doesn't get you much. So I became a teacher. I got a degree in secondary ed, and I taught for a couple of years. And that is where the journey to working with family and kids began. I was a crappy teacher. I mean, I just was like, what are you guys going to do? And they're like, this poem sucks. I'm like, let's not read it.

Beaven Walters
15:12
I love it. The best kind of teacher.

Meghan Leahy sheher
15:16
I wrote all the letters of recommendation for the kids that weren't doing well. They're like, miss lady, will you help me? So, long story short, I just always just did the next thing so the kids wanted me to talk to them about if they should have sex with their girlfriends in middle school. And I was like, I'm not legally allowed to talk to you about that. So let me run over to Johns Hopkins and get a quick degree, where then I realized I didn't want to be a school counselor because then you just end up actually working with adults, which sucked, because I'm not going to sit in a meeting. And then I had my own kids, and then I started going to parenting classes because it was hard.

Meghan Leahy sheher
16:01
And then I started volunteering, and then I got the coaching certification, and then I did newfeld. Things keep appearing, and I just say yes to them if it feels right. Yeah, that's the story. But it's really all just very lucky.

Beaven Walters
16:27
It's lucky. It's also just being very open to kind of inspiration and kind of like the organic flow of what comes before you and being able to kind of discern, is this what I'm meant to be doing? Let's try this. And then you could pivot anytime. Not being so rigidly set in. There's one path. I must stay on it, which makes a lot of sense. But you're incredibly good at what you do, and I know that not as necessarily a client, but certainly as a consumer of your writing. And one of the things I love, perhaps maybe the reality TV lover part of me. Also, I love reading your responses to people who write into your column the questions that they ask. And you're somewhat, I mean, outside the box responses, unpredictable responses, I always find really enlightening and interesting.

Beaven Walters
17:24
And because you're receiving so much from people all the time that you're trying to provide insight and direction for them, you have this really unique perspective, plus your work, of course, as a parent coach, you have this unique perspective on the challenges modern parents are facing right now. They're very different from the challenges even a decade ago.

Meghan Leahy sheher
17:46
Totally.

Beaven Walters
17:47
What do you believe are the biggest obstacles that parents right now are encountering that really is coming in the way of them being able to build meaningful connections with their children?

Meghan Leahy sheher
18:02
Ironically, people like me, I'm very aware that my business actually serves to undermine the very voice that I want parents to listen to. I'm very clear on the role of an expert as being problematic. There is a big breakdown in support in our country, which translates into somehow personal failure. So somehow, through terrible childcare options and very little support once you have the baby, I mean, folic acid thrown at you the minute you get pregnant, monitoring you within an inch of your life, that's great. Unless you're black, then you die. But everybody else, once they have the baby, good luck, right? We don't live near our people anymore for good and bad reasons. We don't have a one way of understanding parenting because we have 100,000 different cultures and we all marry each other. Religions, faiths, way of being, heritage, ancestry.

Meghan Leahy sheher
19:31
And we work ourselves to death, go home, shut the door, and we're alone and we're crazy. And then it's a failure of us when we actually aren't better or worse than, like, a french parent or a kenyan parent, or an italian parent, or an iranian parent. We just have such a sometimes different culture right now, and so we make it that it's our fault, and then we kind of go Looney tunes. The systemic problems in our country are real. But because we are obsessed with individualism and independence, we always just try and make it. Like moms don't. Dads don't. They don't. We don't. Everything's screwed. Because your kid is on tech too much. It's your fault also maybe because we have an unworkable work life.

Meghan Leahy sheher
20:53
And maybe you force all of our kids on tech during COVID And now the schools tell me my kid has to be on tech to do their work in fifth grade. But then you tell me in the recent atlantic article, I just read that they're getting destroyed by being on attack. So what's a parent supposed to do?

Beaven Walters
21:19
Just drown in anxiety and. Right, right.

Meghan Leahy sheher
21:27
I see. My job is, like, making sure people also are crystal clear on the mechanisms that will keep you like this. Right? The articles, the clickables, the clickbait, the click aways that people have no business writing, the specious picking of data. Guess what? They really don't even know what tech has done to brains yet. Because it's still too recent an invention to really have the correlation and the causation and what people say is just outrageous. And they don't leave us with any options. They just keep telling us how we're screwed. And so part of my job is trying to make the global very personal for the family. And what does your family need? Right? Because if you're a single parent and you work 60 hours a week and your kid has ADHD, that's going to look different then what works for you right now?

Meghan Leahy sheher
22:43
So that the greatest good can be met. Because we're not returning to any kind of good old days. Which, by the way, they weren't great.

Beaven Walters
22:53
Right?

Meghan Leahy sheher
22:53
I wasn't on a screen but I barely made it out alive. A lot of us were completely neglected. I would have been a lot better off on a screen in my house.

Beaven Walters
23:06
Okay, some of us did spend a lot of time. It was just in front of a different type of screen. The hours logged in front of Brady Bunch and I love Lucy reruns. I had a lot of those growing up. A lot of hours.

Meghan Leahy sheher
23:20
I mean, talk about inappropriate free's company. So never a broad.

Beaven Walters
23:26
No way. No way. And the ropers, what was going on there? Like, that was my childhood, watching that.

Meghan Leahy sheher
23:34
A lot of men in bars just cheers. Anyway, I just babbled.

Beaven Walters
23:41
No, as always. I'm always so interested in what you're going to respond because it's never the obvious choice because nowadays you ask, what's going on? Oh, it's the screens. And I frequently am like, it's not the screens. It's what role that screen might have in that family might be an indication of something else going on. But I love the fact that you're like, actually, no. Maybe through screens. Parents searching for information, looking to the experts, the content creators who are spewing out something that feels like it's going to give them a hack.

Meghan Leahy sheher
24:19
Right?

Beaven Walters
24:19
A parenting hack. I'm like, why are you looking to hack parenting?

Meghan Leahy sheher
24:25
Well, I mean, the number one bestselling book on Amazon for parenting is one, two, three. Magic. Hello.

Beaven Walters
24:32
If only that were magic, right?

Meghan Leahy sheher
24:35
The realest parenting book is good luck. It never ends.

Beaven Walters
24:40
Right? This is hard. This is hard. And wake up. Don't think it can be anything other than hard.

Meghan Leahy sheher
24:48
Well, and that it's okay.

Beaven Walters
24:50
Yeah.

Meghan Leahy sheher
24:51
Like, not knowing is okay. There's kind of a lack of understanding in american culture or imparenting culture that you are learning on the job with your child, that you are only as wise as your eldest child. And then if you have more than one, that second one, you're like, oh, really? So you're different. Cool.

Beaven Walters
25:13
Start over. Right? It's not the same thing. Well, that's perfect. Kind of my next question or next place, you just let me write there has to do with something you write about in your book. You talk about the power behind losing your balance as a parent, about how not knowing what you're doing as a parent at times can be a good thing. Actually, a quote that I pulled from your book, feeling unsure is not a sign of weakness. Feeling unsure is a sign you are parenting. I'd love to know more about this perspective and how parents can use these moments when they're like, I don't have a clue what I'm doing as moments to kind of really dive in and grow in their intuition and their wisdom internally, not going outside to look for the answers.

Meghan Leahy sheher
26:00
Is this the chapter where I wrote about the yoga teacher and the balance?

Beaven Walters
26:04
Yes.

Meghan Leahy sheher
26:05
Okay.

Beaven Walters
26:06
You started with that. Yes.

Meghan Leahy sheher
26:07
So it's really funny because, of course, I'm in yoga teacher training, because, of course, I can't just write for the column, coach or do makeup. I'm also trained to be a yoga teacher, which is very predictable for me.

Beaven Walters
26:18
I love it. And I see the parallel. I see how that all connects.

Meghan Leahy sheher
26:24
You see it? I just had that yoga teacher and teacher training, and I just told her that I wrote an entire chapter inspired by one moment. And it's about we're doing tree pose, which for everyone listening is put your hands at your heart and then lift your right leg and put your right foot on your left calf and kind of balance there. And she just did a brief description of you're going to fall out of the pose. So let's talk about how to do that without judgment, without failure, without. Right. Like, how you come out of something means as much as how you're in it. Right. So you can flop out of it and have a fit and this and that, and you can't believe it or you're embarrassed.

Meghan Leahy sheher
27:17
And I thought a lot about how the parenting literature, the experts or whoever is about outcomes and about I. What you want to do in the moment that leads to exactly what you want. Right. And that so much of parenting is just not that at all. It's about having a lot of grace, having a lot of space, making, looking at habits, looking at patterns, finding ease, finding some gentleness, finding to where you're clinging to things you don't need to be or how you may be giving up too soon and not having an expectation on yourself or your child, but bringing more curiosity to it than just if I do bait A, then B will happen, and then C will happen, then I know that trick or strategy worked. Or I'll know I'll definitely feel better. Who has guaranteed feeling better? What is that nonsense?

Meghan Leahy sheher
28:43
That is, like, not a goal. Happiness is not a goal. Equanimity is a goal. Nonreactiveness is a goal. But I often think of, like, when I'm in the midst of, like, I am going to wring this child's neck. I often think, like, how can I gracefully exit this issue without destroying them, without embarrassing myself, without destroying myself? How can I gracefully exit and return to it when it's right? That was a lot of babbling. But that's what that chapter is about.

Beaven Walters
29:35
Sounds like largely just like I think it goes hand in hand with this idea of parents feeling this need to have an immediate consequence to a bad behavior. Like, it has to be immediate. Right now I have to make this decision on the fly. And that's usually when you're going to make your worst moves, right? Everybody's got heightened emotions. Everybody is not at a place where they can even access the part of the brain that's going to help make thought. And it's this idea of quick, fast, get the answer now. And being like, okay with not knowing, not having the answer and not responding immediately could be like your parenting gold is really powerful and helpful and not something you hear a lot.

Meghan Leahy sheher
30:24
You do if you look at Ross Green's work, the explosive child. So I did some trainings with them because I really use that model a lot with my parents, and it's a problem solving model for behaviors. But at the essence of it is that nothing is an emergency unless life and limb are on the line. Everything else is not an emergency. Going to school, not an emergency. Homework, not an emergency. Going to practice, not an emergency. Tell a parent that and it's a hard pill to swallow. We've spent a lot of time, we've rejiggered our work life. We are serving yet again a shitty dinner. We're burning thousands of dollars in gas. We have put off our own dreams, hopes and hobbies. We are letting down a team. We are in a carpool, okay?

Meghan Leahy sheher
31:28
It feels like an emergency to us, and it is inconvenient. And the beauty of his model is to get really clear on what you've rebranded an emergency, what you need to go to the mats for, and it's actually very little. And everything else can be problem solved. Nobody wants to do that at first, I don't. And then it kind of just often goes there. Life will bring you to that point, that rock bottom. So people, I guess, are here for when that happens. But I really like that about his model because he's kind of smart. He knows that the problem solving, collaborative approach gets people in the door. And then it's like, psych. This is about listening to your kid, respecting their point of view, and fully collaborating with them.

Beaven Walters
32:32
Right? Respecting your own needs, and being open to like, oops, that didn't work. We're going to come back again and talk about problem solve this minutiae yet again, being okay, that it's going to be an ongoing process. Sorry.

Meghan Leahy sheher
32:48
Until you die.

Beaven Walters
32:49
Exactly. Forever.

Meghan Leahy sheher
32:50
No, until you die. The first thing I tell parents, I'm like, welcome. This is it. Rinse, repeat until you die. You'll get a little better at it so that you can sit in the hammock and not beat yourself up, but you're not getting out of life alive. People and what I always remind people, I love that you said minutiae. I don't really think how you do one thing is how you do everything. I don't believe in that. But when you work on minutiae with kids, and you know this as a new Feldian, when you have smile eyes and a nod, when best intentions are found, when silver linings are looked at, when there is unconditional love, when there's respect, and when you have boundaries, that sets the tone for the relationship, which makes other problem solving easier.

Meghan Leahy sheher
33:50
So it may be about where you're keeping your markers or where you get to charge your iPhone, which is actually a big deal, but it lends itself to everything.

Beaven Walters
34:03
No, absolutely. That makes so much sense when you think about it. I sometimes talk about the simplicity. Truly at its core, that this thing is the simplicity. However, it is not easy.

Meghan Leahy sheher
34:18
Right.

Beaven Walters
34:18
It's very difficult to execute. But getting down to the essence of just the relationship, getting to know the child and knowing that if we have that foundation, we can navigate anything, but the quick fix mentality that going out there and feeling like, oh, I'm going to find the person that knows and do it this way. And being really rigidly set on this idea of something that might work or whatever, that's going to actually take you further away from actually what would work, which is flexibility, which is sometimes like having a more nuanced, inconsistent, creative approach to parenting. Each child is so variable.

Meghan Leahy sheher
35:02
One of the worst terms, one of the things. So I parent, coach parents around a couple of topics, and one of them is the horrors of consistency. What a wreck. What a wreck. And when you spell it out to them, they're like, yeah, that's dumb. I'm like, yeah, why are you doing the same shit as three years ago? That kid was five. Now they're eight. It is consistently wrong.

Beaven Walters
35:31
Now two podcast episodes again. Megan was my case for inconsistency in parenting, and I'm like, I'm going to lose a lot of listeners on this one, but I'm going to talk about it anyway.

Meghan Leahy sheher
35:42
Once you say it to them, right? They're like, oh, it's like blink, blink. Yeah. Where I talk about consistency is I talk about it in character, consistency in values, in leadership in a stance of power, which is a dirty word in our culture. But isn't consistency in steadiness? These are more characteristics than.

Beaven Walters
36:22
You do. It's something you are, as Newfeld always says, right.

Meghan Leahy sheher
36:28
And that's far more nuanced. But when you talk to parents, they get it immediately. They get it immediately because almost everyone has someone in their life who had that kind of steadiness for them. And if I ask them, so then they always did blank. No. So they always said no. Okay. Right. They will begin to see that it's about character. It's a stance, it's a way of being like you said.

Beaven Walters
37:04
Yeah, right. Okay. So a minute ago, you mentioned about serving yet another shitty dinner. And probably my favorite chapter title in your book. Your child doesn't give a shit about your organic salmon. Brilliant writing. Love that. It kind of summarizes it.

Meghan Leahy sheher
37:22
Highbrow. Highbrow.

Beaven Walters
37:23
Yeah. But that chapter, honestly, for me, I mean, we're all on our own developmental journey, our own journey towards maturing, even as, hello. Turning 50 in less than a month. Happy birthday. Thank you. That one. That chapter, I was like, ooh, that's touching something here I need to take another look at. For me, my parenting and how I'm occasionally showing up from that place you're talking in this chapter about. On some level, we're seeking approval from our children. We're seeking gratitude. We're seeking appreciation. I hear this a lot from my coaching clients when they're like, my kid is so ungrateful, blah, blah, blah. When it's my own family, my own child, I see things completely differently.

Beaven Walters
38:12
And when I've put in the efforts to do something for my family, make a meal, you talk about driving to school instead, taking the school bus. And our children are not showing frequent gratitude that on some level it doesn't feel good. But then we're like, wait a minute, am I seeking something that is not mine to be given? And not to say that raising children who are ungrateful and don't appreciate things I have is the goal, but the idea that parents are walking around feeling like, wait a minute, I'm getting slighted because my child is not grateful at every effort I make on their behalf. That's not the goal here. That's not the idea. And that's actually probably going to be leading to some resentments and some problems between you and your child that need to be looked at, perhaps.

Beaven Walters
39:03
So probably the worst would be like Mother's Day and Father's Day and all the parents who are like, oh, I had the worst Mother's day. And I've had a few of those myself where I was looking for something this one day that my children would show up and not fight and not demand and give this show of gratitude and then be like, wait a minute, this is a joke. What is this thing that I'm looking for that I've been fed by hallmark or whatever? Totally let go of that internal desire for appreciation or gratitude from our kids. What perspective can you share to help us and me grow in this area, Megan?

Meghan Leahy sheher
39:41
I mean, aren't resentments the mean? They are so clear, right? They're just so clear. And so if you find yourself, now listen, you serve like a nice dinner or a shitty dinner, it doesn't really matter. And the kids are like, throw it on the floor. And you're like, I'm raising ungrateful brats. Okay, yeah, maybe true. And older kids, especially younger kids, are harder. But older kids, maybe you're in a little loop of spoiled because most american kids are useless. All they do is get driven around and dropped off at shit and picked up and driven around. They do nothing. I don't think we should bring back child labor. But my God, useless. And it's not their right. And it's also not our fault. So just to be clear, for anyone who's like, Megan's being mean, it's just what it is, right?

Meghan Leahy sheher
40:40
When you, if you're feeling resentful, just don't be afraid, just write it down. I buy all the food. I make all the food. I clean off the table. I serve the food. Nobody cares, nobody looks at me, nobody says thank you, nobody eats it, nobody cleans up. Like, write it down, it'll probably make you cry or more angry. Great, write it down. Just get it out. Or hire someone like Bevin. Get it out and then decide what that's. Know, I use the ABCDE rational mode of behavior therapy thing, right? Activating belief. Activation your beliefs about the activation, the consequences of your belief, the disputing evidence, and then the new belief. Is that an old story from childhood? Because everything's about your friggin mother.

Beaven Walters
41:50
It just is.

Meghan Leahy sheher
41:51
Okay, people, just, even if it's about your father, it's about your mother. Maybe send yourself 10,000 million dollars and just know it's about your mother and.

Beaven Walters
42:01
Start save yourself some money. Right?

Meghan Leahy sheher
42:05
So is it about your childhood? The answer is yes. And is it about your co parenting? Is it about a belief that worked that no longer is it about it's usually about lack of self care, but then why is there lack of self care? What does the meal symbolize? Because it's just a nugget. It's just a nugget. So start to unpack what it means. For some people, this can be dangerous waters. So surround yourself with the people that you need to, and then you can begin to behave appropriately from there. Maybe it's that you have created spoiled brats. Because brats aren't made. They're not born. They're made. And something's going to change and you're not going to do it to the kids. It's not punishing them.

Meghan Leahy sheher
43:05
You're just creating boundaries and you're going to let them know and you're going to work with them. It's all going to be nice, but it's going to be hard. Tears will be shed. Maybe you need more support outside. Maybe you need to stop making ridiculous meals.

Beaven Walters
43:23
I love it when you just come out and just say, no one asked you to make that dinner. No one asked you to.

Meghan Leahy sheher
43:31
Amount of parents who are making skillet based dinners with a three year old and a one year old. I was like, what drugs are you on? Share them. That's insane to be stirring something. I was like, baby, we are looking at crock pots or rotisserie chicken for at least, like, maybe two years. It's okay. It's okay. If the kids are killing each other and you are stirring and seething. Who cares about the meal? Who cares? It doesn't matter. Yeah. So unpack the resentments because they'll tell you where you need to go. It might take you a while to get there.

Beaven Walters
44:25
Yeah.

Meghan Leahy sheher
44:26
And it's okay to be mad about it.

Beaven Walters
44:29
Right? Again, those feelings are there for a reason, but it may not be your kid. Or if it is, it's probably not their fault. If we're going to look at that, it's really helpful to kind of look at that for me. I know I have this part of my brain that I'm always trying to silence that's about, oh, a good mother does, or I should be, if I'm a good mother or wife. Really? Based upon a very outdated standard of what this looks like, what this should look like, and what it means to be a good mother, I know for me, that's a voice that I work on silencing with my therapist. So, yes, plug in. Work through those feelings. They're there for a reason. They're informing things.

Beaven Walters
45:13
But I mean, looking and taking a backseat from the pressure we put on ourselves that might be not coming from the most wise place of our brain.

Meghan Leahy sheher
45:24
I had a therapist, and I always loved it. And sometimes I use it with my clients. Not in a therapeutic way, because coaching is not therapy. But it's kind of like everybody's on the bus, right? Like childhood, you, teenhood, you, preteen, young adult, you. Everyone's on the bus. And so it's just who's driving, right? Insecure, you. Insecure about motherhood, you. And that's okay, she's on the bus, but we're just going to ask her to go to the back and click in. We need her.

Beaven Walters
45:59
We'll call her out, right, and switch seats with the other version of you.

Meghan Leahy sheher
46:05
Your Buddha self, or whatever you want to call it, the self that knows you have. Yeah.

Beaven Walters
46:14
All right. So last kind of concept I wanted to kind of talk about on here, I reached out, I said this concept of as parents, one of the most powerful things we can do is borrowing from medical doctors, do no harm, first and foremost. And so I oftentimes, when I talk about this concept with parents, I talk about sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something that could cause harm to your child or your relationship. But because you're such a brilliant writer, and obviously your thoughts about this take it to the next level because you were kind of bringing to mind recently in some of your writings, and it's within your book, too, within our last chapter, you talk about that doing no harm is an act of choice. It's not doing nothing. And it tied to these invisible things.

Beaven Walters
47:04
This invisible work of parenting is the chapter. You talked about this in your book. It's all tied to the things that we're doing that are really powerful but may not, from an outside observer, look like we're doing anything or maybe that we're making a mistake. Tell me a little bit more about your take on this concept of doing no harm.

Meghan Leahy sheher
47:26
Oh, I really just love everything you said there. I really love how you said it looks like doing nothing, but it's really, for a lot of us, the most mature thing we've ever done. And if you follow Mona Delahok's work, who I can't even believe she's alive.

Beaven Walters
47:49
I know, survived a massive brain aneurysm and is, like, back talking to people, serving people. Yeah.

Meghan Leahy sheher
47:58
And I was emailing her and were working together right before that. And I was, like, writing to her even when she was in her coma. Like, girl, we have plans. Get back here. So for everyone listening, go check out her work. And support her. She's brilliant. But more important than that, she's really kind. She's really kind and that's nice. Anyway, something you said just made me think of it. Right? So if you look, a lot of people are looking at the vagus nerve and our nervous system states and what that means for our reactions and nonreaction, quote, unquote, doing nothing. Non attachment requires us to be in a. To feel safe, right? And the words are, I can. I can handle this. I am, I can. I'm able to.

Meghan Leahy sheher
48:59
And then not doing anything because you can't, is that dorsal vagus reaction, which is disassociative, shut down, not there, literally depressed, pushed down, catatonic, where you may actually look like you're there, but you're not there. And they're very different. The operative word being safety, which, as you know, as a fellow new Feldian, is like everything real or perceived. And so when you choose safety, emotional, physical, psychological, that is very powerful because another human knows when you are checked out, right. Our kids know when we are not there. It's obvious to see the sympathetic nervous system rear up, which is the mobilization, which is I have to, the anxious, the I must. That's usually easier to see and somewhat rewarded in our parenting world. Nip it in the bud, take care of it now. Can't let that happen. And those are the cheap seats.

Meghan Leahy sheher
50:36
They're very satisfying. They feel really good in the. Just as Newfeld says, it works, but at what cost? And so I've been looking a lot at do no harm as this really kind of powerful area of emotional safety within yourself, which I'm not sure what, requires more trust and faith than that, especially depending on how you were raised and your go to pathways. So a lot of us are parenting in a second language. This is not native. This level of introspection, responsibility, patience, compassion, self forgiveness, that is not what a lot of us were raised with. It seems inaccessible for a lot of people. And so to show that to yourself, so that you can not destroy other people, is world changing. World changing. But just nobody sees it.

Meghan Leahy sheher
52:05
Nobody sees the lack of critique or the not shitty comment or the not, well, why wasn't it an A? Or why wasn't it a b? Or it's almost clean, but what about nobody? Because it's invisible. It's just the powerful invisible inside. You know, I kind of hope, like, I have a friend, Jen, who I text, and I'm just like, I am parenting my ass off and nobody will see, like, I am not destroying everyone in my life. And I'm just letting you know. And she'd be like, good on you. I want for everyone to have a friend, to text, to just be like, nobody sees this. But the murder, I could be causing, the mayhem, the divorce, and for somebody to be able to hold that and be like, good on you, keep going. I'd like that for people because it's.

Beaven Walters
53:11
Just not very sexy, but incredibly powerful. And I love the way in which you talk about that because, yeah, no one's walking around like, great job doing nothing. In that moment when your kid was talking to you with a sassy Tome, you know you're not going to get that. It does look like, oh, that kid needs more discipline. Right?

Meghan Leahy sheher
53:38
Yeah. In fact, to your point, you might get shamed, right?

Beaven Walters
53:42
And, oh, we don't want to feel that we're going to try and run away from that.

Meghan Leahy sheher
53:46
Or if you're me, fight the person. Which is why I feel really secretly lucky to write for the post, because I am subversively giving grace to parents, grace to kids, grace to parents, grace to kids Grace really subversively. Like attachment, attachment in so many other words, making it palatable, right?

Beaven Walters
54:14
Yeah, no, I see it. I can sense it. But I have a little bit of insight into the perspective from which you're writing. And that's why I love it, because I'm like, oh, my gosh, on this big level, you're able to reach so many people and support people in a way that is, again, outside the lines, outside the box, which is what we need. And it is just helping parents grow in their ability to be courageous and intuitive and know that you have it. I often tell my clients on their very first hire me interview, my job is for you not to need me anymore. I say the same thing.

Meghan Leahy sheher
54:51
Evans right? Yes.

Beaven Walters
54:53
I'm trying to work myself out of a job, right?

Meghan Leahy sheher
54:56
And now, of course, I've had the same clients, some of them for 13 years now. They just call me every other month.

Beaven Walters
55:05
And you tell them what I tell mine, like, you don't need me, but I'm always here for you 100%. And I'm like, you got this.

Meghan Leahy sheher
55:12
And they're like, I don't got this. But before we hang up, too, I just want to also say, because you asked me at the very beginning, what's top of mind in modern parenting, or what's the problem? And there is a dearth of play and joy. I think COVID killed us, some of us. I mean, it actually killed a lot of people.

Beaven Walters
55:39
If not literally. Physically. Emotionally, yes.

Meghan Leahy sheher
55:44
And accessing fun and joy and play. All my parents get that homework all the time. Where can we access fun, joy, play. Light heartedness, laughter, silliness. I feel like that is a quick, easy, cheap fix for so many things that nobody reaches for.

Beaven Walters
56:13
No. And connect with your kids around joy and laughter and fun and play. You'll have something to reflect back on that doesn't feel like just like I survived those parenting years and your children feeling like it was not a lot of fun, a lot of stress, not a lot of fun, not a lot of joy in that household. Perfect. Final question. You just led me right there. What do you love to do with your kids or when they're growing up, to find that connection, that joy? What is it that I always love to end with this question with guests on my podcast.

Meghan Leahy sheher
56:48
It's different with each of my kids because obviously they're different. We love to travel. A couple of my kids love to shop. My middle kid who doesn't like to shop is a music nerd, and so am I. So I'm the parent bringing my kids to nightclubs in DC on a Tuesday night for a 1030 show. Eating. We love to go out. We love to eat. Really simple things. Just hanging out. We really do scroll and pee ourselves at funny memes, like ridiculous, and watching shows together. We love Abbott Elementary, a good New York times, all the puzzles, all the crosswords, all the games, a lot of music. A lot of music. And usually me finding ways to love what they love.

Meghan Leahy sheher
58:00
So whatever they're into, I try and find an avenue in, even if I'm, like, inside, like, I try to find a nugget of something for me so they can see the light in my eyes or when I'm like, oh, well, blah, blah. And they're like, how'd you know that? Yeah. They're really just being around them, just laughing, asking them questions.

Beaven Walters
58:27
Yeah, I love that. Simple doesn't have to be complicated. Simplicity. Yeah. But also, I love the idea that you're looking at your kids and you're noticing and they're seeing that. And that, of course, is such a basis for connection and feeling, that sense of significance that they really matter and that you see. Yeah. How can parents work with you? Receive your support right now, Megan.

Meghan Leahy sheher
58:49
Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'm on all the things, even though they're the mlparentcoach.com mlparent coach on Instagram, Facebook. I think it's Megan Lee, parent coach.

Beaven Walters
59:06
I'll put all the links in the show notes that people can just click away and find.

Meghan Leahy sheher
59:10
I started a mini podcast on Substac that is way more personal about me because there's not really. And then the Washington Post. Please subscribe. It pays for good journalism. Like, I just can't write. Whatever. Make it up. Yeah. So, yeah, everywhere. Just Google.

Beaven Walters
59:28
Awesome. Well, as I said, the beginning, I'm a huge fan and am really grateful you came on the 3d parent podcast and shared your wisdom, your insights with my audience. Thank you so much, Megan, thank you.

Meghan Leahy sheher
59:41
And thank you for all the work you're doing. Keep going. We need you out there.

#103 Parenting Outside the Lines with Guest, Meghan Leahy

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